tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5093235613475955764.post6761521497503314019..comments2023-06-23T06:29:50.531-05:00Comments on t(r)oymarbles: Jesus' radical but simple prayerTroyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11272840064329853423noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5093235613475955764.post-77784790418913735412012-09-23T19:44:06.588-05:002012-09-23T19:44:06.588-05:00Thanks for reading, Ro. And thanks for your honest...Thanks for reading, Ro. And thanks for your honest response! Very insightful. <br /><br />Here are a couple things that come to mind: <br /><br />1. Scripture uses the words "heaven" and "heavens" in different senses. Dallas Willard points out in "The Divine Conspiracy" that at times the word is interchangeable with the English word "atmosphere." The references you cite seem to accord with that meaning. For example, when I get in a plane and fly in the sky it is as if I've left the earth and been transported to "the heavens". Or, when God spread out the stars in "the heavens" we understand that space to be so high above us it is clearly distinct from earth. <br /><br />Jesus' pronouncement that the "kingdom of heaven is at hand" could also be phrased as "the kingdom of heaven is *imminently accessible*." In fact, in his paraphrase of the Lord's Prayer Willard suggests rewording "Our Father in heaven" as "Dear Father in the atmosphere" or "Dear Father in the space immediately surrounding us" or "Dear Father ever-near us". In his teaching Jesus clearly wanted to correct our misunderstandings about the reign of God and its locale. <br /><br />2. In those instances when Scripture accentuates distinction between heaven and earth (or this life and the next), I would say that is due to the tension between the notion of transcendence and immanence. On the one hand, God is Wholly Other (transcendent), on the other he is immediately accessible (at hand, imminent). <br /><br />A children's ministry curriculum I love speaks of Jesus as "a king, but not that kind of king." By this expression the curriculum emphasizes, God is high and lifted up, but in a humble kind of way. The two must stand in tension with one another. <br /><br />So, yes, the next life is indeed another life different from this life, but the wonder is Jesus came to announce that we can begin living the eternal kind of life here and now. That is what makes our faith so wondrous. Otherwise we should be just like any other religion where God cannot be accessed in such a way. <br /><br />Don't know if these additional observations "prove" anything but that is how I am trying to live in the tension of what Jesus suggests in his teaching. <br /><br />Hope this helps,<br />Troy Troyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11272840064329853423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5093235613475955764.post-6736433141566331942012-09-23T07:38:16.608-05:002012-09-23T07:38:16.608-05:00Troy, I am attracted to your argument that heaven ...Troy, I am attracted to your argument that heaven should be understood as 'near' rather than 'far'. I'm not sure you've prooved this to be true, yet, though. Doesn't the distinction between the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1 create a sense of 'heaven is distinct from earth'? Or does the verse 'as high as the heavens are from the earth, so far will he remove his sins from us' demonstrate such distance also.<br />If you have any additional thoughts on this, I'd be very interested.Rogierhttp://www.thejourney.nlnoreply@blogger.com